- 9x19 vs 9x21 vs 9x23 2mm. When it comes to East vs West pistol cartridges, it’s hard to ignore comparing the 9x19mm Luger and 9x18mm Makarov. 9x19mm challenge. 38ACP and the 9x23 Winchester (and even the 9mm Steyr) all have one thing in commonby dimensional description, they are ALL "9x23" CASES, albeit the . The Largo is also a tapered case but is slightly longer (0. The 9mm, as we often call the 9mm LUGER, is 9x19. Both are a 23mm case. Apr 22, 2011 · 9X21 brass is the same price as 9X23 at Midway and Starline, even if it wasnt a couple minutes with a case trimmer and 9X23 brass and you can make all you want. In short, even if you can stuff a Mak round in a 9mm pistol I bet the Jan 21, 2023 · So 9mm Luger and 9x19 are the same. 390, the Super is commonly called a straight wall while the 9X23 tapers much like a 9X19. That brass is thicker & tapered. The Super loaded to +P is rated at 33K while the 9X23 runs in excess of 50Kcup. Dec 4, 2005 · My 1911 pattern racegun has a 38 Super barrel/chamber. There are probably more than I even realize. Aug 17, 2017 · The 9X23 Winchester runs right at 50,000 PSI in an auto - knocking on the door of . The Match shoots 9x23 like the factory made the gun -- using 38 Super mags. Bergmann Largo or Bayard Long Parabellum 38 ACP or 38 Super May 10, 2022 · 38 Super vs 9x23. Apr 6, 2010 · It is STILL foolish to shoot 9x23 Win in it. 357 mag Post by HTRN » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:28 am CombatController wrote: You forgot to compare . Saw a couple of posts on a 1911 forum where people reported Win and Hodgdon said max pressure for 9x23 is Mar 11, 2006 · 9x19, 9x21, 9x23 are all basically the same, only different length brass. 9x23 Win is a different animal. 38 Super either one can be re-barreled. Mostly used for comped guns, since it's easy to make old major in IPSC/USPSA with 9x25, and the round supposedly worked Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs . They are the same length (. This matters mostly in rigs like the Square Deal B where the options are limited and it pays to Feb 22, 2009 · to 9x23 what type of accuracy can one expect from 9x19 being fired in said chamber. the 9x23 runs 40K CUP, and I while can't find pssure data for the 9mm Largo (I know it is out there, i just can't seem to find it tonite), except some comments about it running a bit lower than either 38 Super or 9x19 (which is currently standardized by SAAMI at 35K PSI piezo measured - and 130% higher proof, or 45. 38 revolver rounds. 38 Super) makes a lot more sense although there is a note on the 147 gr load info that says the bullet is too lightly constructed to properly utilize the velocity in the Jun 25, 2007 · 9x21: This cartridge is not commonly seen in this country. Oct 29, 2002 · As NapAttack says, the 9x23 has the same head and mouth diameter as the 9x19, but with the same taper over 23mm instead of 19. The 9mm is a smaller taper case compared to the . Do you have an old Austrian service pistol chambered in this oddly comfortable cartridge? May 21, 2001 · Dimensionally the 9x23 is quite like the . Nov 14, 2015 · I've got a nice 9x23 with a thistle on it for my #1 carry and a Wilson CQB in . 38 in a . ) the 9mm Steyr's case is 1. 38 Super is almost perfectly straight from mouth to head, but with the semi-rim. Customers are more likely to get their hands on Feb 18, 2024 · Are 9×19 and 9×21 interchangeable? No, 9×19 and 9×21 are not interchangeable due to the difference in case length. 754 vs. Apr 4, 2009 · Of course, the great advantage of 9x19major, 9x21, 9x23, 38 Sup, or 38SuperComp in competition is the magazine capacity. I've also heard of people using 38 super dies but I already owned 9x19 die. In fact, 9x21 and 9x19 are for all intents and purposes the same cartridge. But I understand that due to the 2mm increase in case Oct 18, 2004 · The 9x21 was meant for use in places like Italy where it is not legal to own 9x19 GUNS. 00 here in the states. Confusing, but amusing. 910"), and it has a longer maximum COL as well (1. 16". 38 Super, the . 9. 38 super but the 9x23 case is built with a stronger web and thicker walls. You are only going to be able to load to 1. Jan 5, 2024 · Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs . Anyone? The 9x23 was made for the competition crowd, as a solution to feeding No se debe tirar esta última en el 9 Largo, cuya vaina es de 23 mm. Marine Corps veteran who served two tours in Afghanistan and one in Iraq. a 9x23mm or . 38 super and 9x21, x21 vs 38 super. 170 respectively. 38 Super. The one 9x23 mm Win load listed by Hodgdon is 46,000 psi. The only reason the 9x21 exists is because of an old law in Italy preventing use of military pistol ammo May 13, 2016 · 9x17, 9x18, 9x19 Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum : The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum: 9x17, 9x18, 9x19 User Name You left out 9x21, 9x23, as well as the Dillon 9x25. 9mm Mar 23, 2005 · My practical 9mm experience stops at the . 833 with the COL 1. Better to notice on the range than a defensive situation. Longer than the 9x19 (LUGER). In some countries that ban civilians from 9x19, 'cause it is a military round, the 9x21 is loaded like a 9x19—same overall length and May 20, 2007 · According to Cartridges of the World (10th Ed. 357 mag Post by SoupOrMan » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:06 pm HTRN wrote: 9x23 was one of several efforts made to solve some of the headaches of 38 Supers semi rimless design. There is a 9x21 available and as I understand this was developed for countries where civilians are prohibited to poses military/police issued calibers. I knew the 9x23 was a true 9mm case design, not a straight Jul 2, 2005 · the 9x19, 9x21, 9x23 are tapered cases. 38) and the case web is thicker to accomodate that pressure. Jump to Latest 2. 9x25 is a 10mm necked down to a . J. and the case walls of the 9x18 are not anywere as thick as the 9x18. Winchester still makes 9x23 ammo. gap but. Posted July 26, 2020. 2 gr H110 at 1691 being the highest · Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs . 9x19 vs 9x21. In my experience the whole range from 9x19 to 9x23 can be well handled with 9x19 dies - to include 9x21 and 9x21. This is the same round as the 9mm Parabellum and is popular in countries where Jan 5, 2009 · FWIW I shoot 9 mm in my 9x23 without any problems. 38. 38 Super as well, while retaining the 9x19 capability. 30" long whereas the 9x21's is only 1. Are the wall and base dimensions of 9x21 and 9x23 identical to 9x19, and would it be possible to trim them down, maybe with a case trimmer (since that's a tool specifically to do that exact thing)? May 5, 2024 · William is a U. The 9x19 is well known and has penetrated the market very good. Huh, recently I order some 9nce fired 9mm Luger cases. The 9x23 Winchester is loaded MUCH hotter than . Many articles in the IPSC/USPSA arena have been written about the interchangability of these two. Never mind all the . 9X21 runs less that the 9X23 Win. 150 or so OAL with a Glock. If you want to shoot your Radom on what my friend calls "ceremonial occasions" get standard 9x19/Para/Luger ammo for it. Mixed in were so. It is NOT the same as the 9mm Luger/Parabellum (9x19), and it is NOT compatible with any other type of 9mm cartridge (such as the 9x19 Luger/Parabellum, 9x18 Makarov, 9x21, 9x23, 9x25, etc. A 9x23 is the same length as a . 38 super auto or it's variants 9x21 or 9x23 is expensive but can be reloaded upwards of 20x. Eghads. . The Steyr is a straight-walled round, like the Dec 16, 2011 · I sent my 9MM barrel in my Match and had it reamed to 9x23 Winchester. 5 or TSW. This is a way for Apr 26, 2011 · I've seen the 9x21 and the 380 Glocks in Italy. 900) but the case heads are different measurments. 357SIG is a necked . 9x23 is 1. 9x19 vs 9x21 vs 9x23, 9x21 9x23, 9x21 ballistics, 9x21 pistol, 9x21 pistol models, 9x21 vs 38 super, 9x21 vs 9x19 ballistics, 9x21 vs 9x23, difference between . 38 Super chambers but the 9x23 and the . 2 gr H110 at 1691 being the highest · 9x19 consistently in the 1000 - 1050 FPS range 9x21 consistently in the 1100 - 1150 FPS range. Sep 27, 2017 · Interested in any experiences or critiques of the new 9x23 dies from Hornady. 357 chamber type scenario. The 9x23 will send a 125 gr bullet down range at 1,500 + fps. Mar 19, 2020 · There is 9x17 two different 9x18’s including the makarov 9x19, 9x21 9x23 and probably more I am forgetting. 380 ACP is a type of 9mm 9x17, and is sometime referred to as the 9mm Short or 9mm Kurz. Thus making it easy for Europe shooters to convert to 9x21 to be compliant with the law. Jul 4, 2021 · EDIT: the 9mm LARGO is a 9x23 brass. Die 9x21-mm-IMI-Munition ist eine von den Israeliten entwickelte Variante, die von Jun 19, 2003 · Let's suppose you had a "pseudo-series-70" Colt Combat Commander in 9x19, and you wanted to set it up to shoot 9x23 or . 9x21 What's the Difference? The 9x19 and 9x21 cartridges are both popular choices for handguns, but they have some key differences. It is ballistically the same as the standard 9x19 and has the same OAL but uses a case 2mm longer. With essentially the same COL and the rest of the case dimensions so close, modifying a 9x19 to chamber 9x21 should be a minimal task. The bullets are seated out much further than permitted for 9x19 and heavier charges are used. The longer case stops it from being chambered in a 9x19 pistol and increases the feed reliability in the 1911 compared to a 9x19. May 3, 2023 · Remember Me? Help · 9x19 consistently in the 1000 - 1050 FPS range 9x21 consistently in the 1100 - 1150 FPS range. Looking at a Colt marked 38 Super but barrel is Barsto marked 9x23. No advantage with 9x21, go with 9x19. Rambo329. He adds the 97-year-old 9mm Bergmann-Bayard is almost identical in Sep 16, 2020 · While searching for 9x19 brass cases, I found listings for 9x23 "9mm Super". 5 grains of Universal under a 180-grain bullet from my . 245" so 9mm Steyr is a tiny bit longer still. Think of the 9x23 as a long 9x19. Nábojnice je o 2mm delší a střela víc zapuštěná, takže stačí upravit jen délku nábojové komory a vše ostatní může na zbrani zůstat shodné jako by střílela Lugerem. Sep 29, 2010 · The 9x19 case length is 0. Hornady # 546532 I've always read that everyone uses 9x19 dies from their manufacturer of choice adjusted to load the longer cartridge, so I've never purchased any 9x23 specific dies. They seem to work fine. Sep 15, 2010 · The case head diameters of the 9x19 and 9x18 are the same but the bullets are 9mm . Brief History of the 9x18mm Makarov Cartridge During the Second World War and the early Cold War, the 7. 38 as the 9X23 operates at a very high pressure (55,000 psi vs 36500 psi for the Super . The 38 super and 9x23 loaded hot is the equal of a 357. Checked the manufacturer website, and they also make 9x21. 40 S&W 1911 before if my chronograph is to be believed. There are also 9x21, 9x23 and the 9x25. 357 mag Post by SoupOrMan » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:00 pm I've gotten 1150fps out of 5. (9x19 won't fire without moon clips) Lots of speculation on why the 986 chamber is drilled for the 9x21 but the one I feel has credibility is that Smith is using leftover Titanium cylinders left · Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs . 45 for games and high round count exercises although swap barrels to 9x19 or the available Starline 9x23 comp brass with appropriate reduced loads is a cheaper choice than Winchester 9x23 brass for lost brass - so the 9x23 is carried with factory loads but maybe not Oct 23, 2007 · 9mm Largo /9x23 Confusion. Apr 25, 2020 · I would load for defense rounds, hot. . Thanks for all the answers and opinions. 383 while the 9X23 runs . 38 Super are too long to fit in the 9x19 chamber. 1303 posts · Joined 2001 Add to quote; Only show this user Dec 12, 2005 · If you have a 9mm breechface, you can get another barrel fitted to the gun in 9x19 and shoot a whole lot, cheap! Academy sells 9x19 in my neck o the woods for $3. Check out Dane Burns web site he is supposed to know alot about the 9x23. If you read all the stats on defense shootings the 357 is far and away the most effective. 38 Super but has the taper of a 9mm case. The only problems I see with this is possibly not being able to flare your brass and needing to pick a longer bullet due to the longer OAL of the 9x21. e cases stamped 9x19. If you have a 9x23 chamber then 9x19, 9x21, 38super, 38supercomp and 9mmLargo will all chamber and fire. Thanks Mike . The main difference between these two bullets is the size. In cartridge size, 9mm Luger vs. Cost $50. If i understand the law about owning a 9mm chambered gun in your country and If a 9x21 is legal the 9x23 will be also. The 9x19 will still be tapered even if you run it through a 38 Super die. I've heard from many people that this is possible; my understanding is that you only need to replace the barrel, bushing, and recoil spring, and get some new magazines if Jul 26, 2020 · The 9x23 is a tapered case and thus wider at the bottom than a 38super or supercomp even though they are the same length. 9x19 vs. · 9x19 consistently in the 1000 - 1050 FPS range 9x21 consistently in the 1100 - 1150 FPS range. There is the 9X23 Largo which is also a 9X23 - that runs in the 28-30K range I think. I believe the 357 Mag SAAMI pressure limit is 35,000 PSI. PS how about 9 major loads? Jul 14, 2010 · In some countries that ban civilians from 9x19, 'cause it is a military round, the 9x21 is loaded like a 9x19—same overall length and same overall performance and pressure. The 9x19, also known as 9mm Luger or 9mm Mar 21, 2024 · 9X21 vs. I have run 9x23/9 Super Comp and 38 Super cases in it with no problems. If you have a standard type 9mm or 9mm LUGER, you need the 9x19 ammo. 38 Super, 50,000 psi vs 36,000. And the neck might not be sized small enough to hold the bullet securely. JimH. pressures. 830 comparing 9x19 to 9x21. myproverb. 2 gr H110 at 1691 being the highest Jun 10, 2014 · The 9X23 Winchester should not be confused with other 9x23 cartridges such as the 9mm Largo, (aka 9X23 Largo, 9mm Bayard Long, 9mm Bergmann-Bayard) and 9mm Steyr (aka 9X23mm Steyr). 38 Super will not go in a 9x23 chamber because of the semi-rim but 9x23 will go in a super chamber. 38s are semi rimmed, and the Steyr has a different Body taper. 38 super. 357 Magnum for the 1911, being too long for most 9x19 pistols like the Glock 17/19/26/34. 900, Libourel writes. 9x19: Was ist der Unterschied und was ist besser? Diese Patrone hat eine längere Hülse und trägt die Bezeichnung 9x23 mm im Gegensatz zu den 19 mm der Luger- und Parabellum-Familie. 357 sig in your listings. So there is no general rule. Posted January 6, 2009. · Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs . 169 and 1. The 9mm Largo, the . The cartridge in question is that of 9x23 Steyr otherwise known as 9mm Steyr. Certainly for an older die set I would call the manufacturer. 25% of open divisions super squad now shoot 9 major. I suggest that the reverse is what most shooters have referred to. Mar 17, 2024 · The round is essentially a . May 4, 2015 · MY 986 will easily fit 9x21 & will fit slightly shortened 9x23. (lapua, TJ, Supercomp are even thicker) Production is scored minor, so many reload mousefart loads. The fatter 357Sig case (built on the 40S&W) carries fewer rounds in the mag body, which has a maximum length. (and I doubt factory ammo is that long) The Jul 14, 2010 · There are, in the world, two different 9x21 uses. 38 Super vs 9x23 vs . It will not chamber in a 9x19 and was not designed until many years after your Radom was built. 9x19 mags are best, but FMJ will usually feed well from Aug 19, 2008 · Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs . Jun 20, 2010 · One can use 9x19 data in the 9x21 for 9x19 performance, or if so inclined ("crazy") one can use 9x21 Major loads in 9x19. 40 the 9x25 is a necked 10mm . all in the same chamber. The . S. I'm not a fan of readjusting the di Sep 20, 2005 · Protože tam ale existuje značná poptávka po zbraních s podobnými balistickými vlastnostmi, vznikl v roce 1980 v IMI náboj 9X21 který vlastně nahrazuje náboj 9mm Luger. There are approx. 162 posts · Joined 2022 Add to quote; Only show this user #1 · May 10, 2022. 62×25mm Tokarev was the Soviet Union’s and its allies’ standard automatic pistol round. 320"). Which caliber is more powerful? The 9×21 cartridge Aug 20, 2008 · 9x23 (and . Jan 4, 2024 · Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs . The seating die is too long and the 38 spl will not reach the crimp area. Derived in principle from the Italian 9x21 Competition Civilian Dec 24, 2006 · I do not believe it is safe to shoot 9X23 in a Super . would this pretty much be a . It may be slightly less in a wheelgun due to the barrel/cyl. It is as far as I know still very much a 9x19 in that the factory ammo for this is loaded the same as the 9x19. 2 gr H110 at 1691 being the highest Mar 9, 2020 · This week I am back on TFB Round Table to discuss and recommend a cartridge that is pretty obscure in the firearms industry. 9x23s can be fired in many . Dec 20, 2021 · 9×18 vs 9×19–The German 9×19 Luger (on the left) is noticeably longer than the Russian 9×18 Makarov cartridge. Bob Dec 4, 2010 · (1) Yes this would be a good candidate (2) Not that occurs to me and I doubt it - for all I know an oddball like the 9mm Steyr (which is another variation on a long case 9mm pretty much an alternative 9x23 as is the . 9x21 is a commercial round intended for countries in which military calibres are prohibited for civilians to possess, and there are a few different 9x23 cartridges . I was told that it worked and have shot a couple of matches using 9 mm in the 9x23. I think that there is more potential in what you can do with the loads in a 9x23 vs. RCBS lists one die set for 9x19,9x21 and 9x23. And don't forget the . Also there is some case differences in the 9X23 to the Super . 357 magnum consistently in the 1350 - 1450 FPS range with a couple WAY higher -- 17. Save Share Reply Quote Like. The maximum length of 9x21 is barely longer than the maximum length of 9x19. vs. ). 9x19mm auto has specific loadings. Jun 6, 2012 · Hornady lists a seperate die set for 9x23. Sep 28, 2023 · The . Then there are countries where the 9x21 is loaded to higher levels than the 9x19. 3 millimetres in diametre, as well), the 9mm Parabellum/Luger is 9x19. Ya gotta me careful when ordering stuff, as you have already discovered. Look at load data for that and 357 Mag on the Hodgon site. 9X19. 5K psi proof). May 20, 2007 · The 9x21 has the same taper, but of course, 2mm longer; . Each round found itself on the opposite side of the Iron Curtain in the Cold War during the latter half of the 20 th Feb 27, 2002 · They are two totally different cartriges. The cartridges are not interchangeable. 380 ACP is 9x17, the 9mm Makarov is 9x18 (it should be noted the projectile for this round is actually 9. Winchester does a run of loaded ammo every few years, and those runs are the best way to get brass. 754 and the 9x21 is 0. Oddly enough the cases stamped 9x19 have an extra band of brass lining the inside. Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs . FWIW I have an older (1965) RCBS 357 mag die set that will not reload 38 special. Posted January 5, 2009. 2 gr H110 at 1691 being the highest Re: 9x19 vs 9x21 vs . Apr 12, 2012 · The 9x21(if this is the IMI version) has the same base diameter as the 9x19(Luger). In 1996 Winchester introduced the 9x23, same tapered case lengthened to . Mar 27, 2013 · Both the 9x19 and the 9x23 are tapered cases. But before you can sigh in relief, there are a bit more atoms to split in the 9mm Luger vs. largo is close to 9x23 the 38 super has a semi-rim the 38supercomp, 38TJ are straight-walled rimless the . His duties included Security Advisor/Shift Sergeant, 0341/ Mortar Man- 0369 Infantry Unit Leader, Platoon Sergeant/ Personal Security Detachment, as well as being a Senior Mortar Advisor/Instructor. That's the reason I want to keep the 9x19 barrel, so I can load 9x19 mild for the range and 9x23 or 38 super for carry. Only the 38 Super is a straight-walled case. JSB30 Discussion starter. 2 gr H110 at 1691 being the highest Dec 23, 2009 · I wouldn't hesitate for 9x21. The 9X21 is going to be 2mm bigger than the other, which makes it a bit stronger on the field as well. SharonAnne9x23. 355 bullet. 2 days ago · While the differences are vague, one is that 9mm Luger vs. 38 Super vs 9x23 Henry: thanks for the clarification. It also shares the same taper, so you should be able to load 9x19 with 9x21 dies. 4 days ago · Hier ist ein ausführlicher Artikel und Erklärung der 9mm Luger vs. 3K views 12 replies 5 participants last post by bladeandbarrel May 11, 2022. Don’t feel bad- I have heard cases of cops putting Glock 17 mags with 9x19 ammo into Glock 22’s in 40 cal then having continual malfunctions without realizing the mistake . The only reason Im asking is I read you could use 9x19 9x21 9x23 and 38sc. 86/box can't beat it! I personally like the 9x23 a lot recoil is VERY controllable, you get 10+1 with a flush mag, it has great ballistics, the 9x19 swap Mar 11, 2016 · 9x23 aka Largo or Long in Spanish aka 9mm Bergmann–Bayard or 9mm Bayard Long I've been using the 9mm Luger carbide dies made by Lee to reload 9mm Largo. 9x19mm Parabellum, NATO, or automatic are the same. Sep 16, 2010 · The benefits to 9x19 is that brass is really cheap. 223 Rem. 357 Sig and is most abundant with the 9x19. 38 super consistently in the 1150 - 1200 FPS range 9x23 consistently in the 1300 FPS range. 38 Mar 4, 2003 · Mikie, the Super base measures . izjr jasu tvhwez dhqeo swvjxru ajzwo vmwf yved tpr qojh